Pastor's Circle - Mark Durie

Dr. Mark Durie, theologian, human rights activist and vicar of St. Mary's Anglican church in Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, came on The Matt Friedeman Show to discuss the persecuted Church. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.


Why should we be concerned about the persecution of the Church?

It's a very biblical concern. Persecution is one of the major focuses of the New Testament.

I've known a lot of Christians who come from countries that experience persecution.

In my church, we strongly encourage prayer for the persecuted Church.

In the 50 countries in the world where persecution is active, about 40 of them are Muslim, so that's a connection for me.

What about Christianity is so troublesome to Muslims?

Islam is based on the example of Muhammad, and when people stood in his way, he didn't do well.

He commanded Muslims to assume a position of dominance with their faith.

It's a case of the faith shaping the way society works. It's a very deep, difficult issue that goes back 1400 years. That's the heart of it.

At its heart, is it really about the difference between Jesus and Muhammad?

Interestingly, both Jesus and Muhammad suffered a lot of rejection, were opposed and vilified and slandered.

Jesus responded to that in a very interesting way, not trying to revenge himself, but praying for his persecutors.

Muhammad responded with bitterness, and a desire for retribution.

The heart of our faith is the cross. We aren't called to use power to face our rejections.

What can we do to help?

Prayer is very important, and many miracles have happened through prayer.

You need to remember, too, that persecution is not a mistake. If you follow Christ, you need to expect persecution. It's part of the Christian life.

Don't be dismayed, discouraged, intimidated by persecution. Don't give up. It might seem very difficult, but hold your ground.

Pastor's Circle - Michael Catt

Michael Catt is the pastor of Sherwood Baptist Church, known for making movies like Facing the Giants, Fireproof, and Courageous. Dr. Catt joined The Matt Friedeman Show to talk about Sherwood Baptist and its life as a church. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

How have these movies affected your church?

It's certainly made us busy. It's been amazing.

One of the things that's happened is that before we make the movies and while we're making them, we're very intentional about our prayer and our unity on set.

Do you worry that the focus of your church will shift away from the Great Commission?

We see the movies as part of trying to fulfill our role in the Great Commission

We are unashamed about what we believe. We're very open about presenting the Gospel. We don't want anyone to walk away from the movies wondering what we believe.

We know of thousands of people who have come to know Christ through these movies.

How does your church minister outside its four walls?

For about 12 years, we've been feeding homeless people every week. As a result of that, we probably have about a dozen homeless men in our church on any given Sunday.

It's real easy to stand in the pulpit and talk about how the world is so bad. But until we put light in the darkness, complaining about it isn't going to do any good.

You say your favorite biblical character is Joshua. Why is that?

I think as a leader, Joshua followed one of these greatest leaders in all of human history. You have a young man who was content to be second in command for most of his life, and then he assumes command.

For me, Joshua pictures what a man is supposed to do as the leader of his home. He's not a dictator, but he leads his household in how they're going to live.

Why is that so hard for us today?

I think church discipline is an issue. I think accountability is almost lost in the American church.

I think the fear of man is a real problem in the Church today. Many of us see this with pastors, with leaders, with deacons who are afraid to stand out.

You can't blend in. There is a difference between the life of the Church and someone who is just playing with religion.

Pastor's Circle - Darryl Starnes

Darryl Starnes serves as a bishop for the AME Zion Church. He appeared on The Matt Friedeman Show to address the issue of accountability. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

Why is it so hard for us as American Christians to get accountability in our lives?

I think you're right that our culture privacy has risen to almost a godlike status. And because of that, we feel we have the right to keep things to ourselves.

But that is not the Christian perspective. When we surrender our lives to Christ, we become part of a community. We have a responsibility not only to ourselves, but also to those to whom we are attached.

How can we get that kind of accountability??

I think that we must be intentional about asking God to bring into our lives people who genuinely love him, and people who genuinely love us.

Love that speaks the truth and love that is willing to hear the truth. You have to ask God to bring that person into your life.

How hard is it for you, as a bishop, to find someone like that?

I don't think it starts when you're a bishop. It has to start early in the Christian life.

In my college years, God brought into my life some people who are to this day holding me accountable.

You must have that before you get to all these positions. Because they're not talking to the bishop; they're talking to Darryl.

Sometimes the accountability has to be on different levels. It's all about being vulnerable.

What happens spiritually if we don't have accountability?

Much of our healing comes through this intimacy with another Christian brother or sister.

If we don't have that, we don't get healed from many things in our lives. We don't experience victory in many areas of our lives.

What kind of person do you want to hold you accountable?

That's hard, because people present what they want us to see. They show a side of themselves that may look good at face value, and you're going to have to depend on your discernment.

Once the Lord brings someone into your life, you have to trust him to guide you to show you who that person is.

They should be a person of integrity. It doesn't have to be a person who's perfect, but it needs to be someone who is pursuing holiness.

It should be a person who cares more about what God thinks than what people thinks.

Pastor's Circle - Bill Ury

Dr. Bill Ury is Professor of Systematic Theology at Wesley Biblical Seminary and hosts the Hour of Holiness on AFR on Sunday mornings. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss the story of Hosea. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

How should we be thinking on a deeper level about the Personhood Initiative?

I guess the one thing I've noticed in the church people I've talked to is that we don't want to be confused. We want to be compassionate.

On this issue, Mississippi needs to lead the way in saying that look, we do care. But we have an unshakable belief in the personhood of an unborn child.

What has been the historical position of the Church on this issue?

Until recent generations, there was no possibility of being able to abort like we do, with science covering the horror of what's going on.

But theologically, there's never been anyone who played with the personhood of the child. Once you move away from that, all kinds of issues arise.

All through Church history,this has been the undeniable idea.

Why are pastors shy about this issue?

I hope it's not because of money. I hope it's not because of fear of being called a "Neanderthal."

It's a hard deal. But I know that anybody who speaks the Word of God in public and who allows a barrier to be laid between the baby in the womb and personhood is responsible to God.

The need for pastors to be a moral force in the world has to be met. If the Holy Spirit is able to change a human life, then we can come back to what is right and true and good.

We are advocating a moral truth in the world, and that means that we have to step up to the plate.

Why is the Left so scared about 26 in Mississippi tomorrow?

I think that should tell us what's going on. Anytime you have evil challenged, you have an uproar of outrage.

These are all huge issues, and the Devil doesn't want us to have the victory.

We have to keep speaking the truth in love.

The lie of our culture is that we can separate the living breathing baby and the one in the womb. We have to go back and ask ourselves where the human being begins to be.

Before Jesus did anything in Israel, God said about him, "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased."

I think that's what God says about every single embryonic being. This is my creation, in whom I am well pleased.

Pastor's Circle - Todd Hudnall

Todd Hudnall is the pastor of Radiant Church in Colorado Springs, CO. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss the revitalization of the Church. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

What does decline in a church look like?

The thing that strikes  me is it seems churches lose what they're there for. They forget what their purpose is. They forget they're there to fulfill the Great Commission, to make disciples.

Because of that, they lose their fire and their passion because they're not focused on what God wants them to be focused on.

We tend to think more about what we can get out of church, so it becomes a consumer thing. We come to consume, rather than to let God consume us.

When a pastor is going into a church, what needs to happen to revitalize it?

It's not an easy process. And ther'es far more failures than sucesses when a pastor tries to do that.

One of the first things that needs to happen is spiritual renewal in the hearts of the people.

You've got to get people praying. You've got to make them understand the urgency of their need to change.

What other changes need to take place?

I think part of it is understanding what their purpose is, get their eyes focused that way, help them understand the need of the community and the nation, and turn them to repentance. 

But I think alongside that, there needs to be a group of people who catch the vision for this and it begins to spread. 

It starts small initially, but over time, like a snowball, it begins to grow.

What's your advice to laypeople who want their church to take off?

Of course, this is going to sound like a platitude, but it's truly not. That is prayer.

You look in the Bible, and you see what can happen when you pray. And so often in the Bible, what happens is that God sends someone.

I do believe in the efficacy of prayer.

What does that kind of prayer look like?

I think it looks like desperation. It looks like a guy being pushed underwater and trying not to drown.

And unless you have that desperation, it's hard to truly understand prayer.

Pastor's Circle - Daniel Ketchum

In today's Pastor's Circle: Daniel Ketchum, Director of Nazarene Missions International. Dr. Ketchum talked about how God is working locally and internationally.

How is mission giving during this recession?

Most churches are still very committed to give beyond themselves, beyond their own communities and states and counties.

We're seeing mission giving fairly stable; there have been some reductions in various denominations.

Different denominations are experiencing different outcomes. But God is not troubled at all. He is still in control.

What can I do, as a pastor, to excite my congregation about missions?

There are several things.

First, to share stories as much as possible.

Second, to pray for missionaries as much as possible.

Third, to show video clips. This is great for Sunday morning services.

Fourth, to invite missionaries to come in and speak. This is a great way to excite people about God's work.

And lastly, to create partnerships with missionaries beyond shorter trips.

Is there enough money to send the younger generation to send them overseas?

I believe that the denominations will continue to give adequately to be able to continue God's work overseas.

It's not only essential, but we're going to see the sustaining of prayer support and financial support that needs to happen.

Pastor's Circle - Rurel Ausley

 Rurel Ausley, Lead Pastor of Niceville United Methodist Church, joined the Pastor's Circle to talk about becoming radical followers of Christ. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

On Sunday at our church we ask our people to spend half as much as you spend on Christmas on missions this year. Thanks for letting me steal an idea!

Well thanks, but I got that idea from someone else as well.  It is a pretty radical idea though.   

We started it here in the teeth of this recession, we figured if we were hurting our missionaries were likely hurting as well.   

It has been a great way to challenge our people to give.

Your church has been reading Radical, by David Platt.  Tell us about it.

We normally don't do this where the whole church studies the same book, but this was a different situation.   

I had read the book and felt that this is what we should do.  We are combining this church-wide reading of the book with an 8-week sermon series.

What are the key points of the book for those who haven't read it yet?

The author calls for a radical experiment.  You must commit to pray for the entire world; commit to read the Bible in a year; minister in another context.   

He pushes everyone to join a small group for disciple growing.  For me it's just basic Christianity.

Shouldn't this emphasis be local as well as it is global?  There are some serious situations in our own communities.

He does make that point.  He states that most of our lives are spent in "our Jerusalem".   

In the book he challenged us to spend just 2% per year in another country.  That's just one week.   

The problem is with most of us is that we aren't going anywhere for Jesus.  It always starts locally, but it shouldn't end there.

For some of us just being involved locally is pretty radical.  I would say 98% of churches don't even do that.

I think that is why so many churches are stagnated or dying.  Compassionate ministries are typically ignored.   

However, when the church is out in the community it gives the gospel a hearing.

What happens in your people once they get out there in the community?

It is really benefits both sides.  You don't want nothing to happen in people who are serving.  I love to see what happens in the fellowship that occurs between our people as they serve in the community. 

Why is it so hard for 98% of churches to get this idea?

If we could get the answer to that we could write a best-selling book.   

I think a big part is that we have become so comfortable, so stagnant in our churches.  As Americans we are now more interested in our own comfort, and what makes us happy.   

People are largely biblical illiterate because they don't read the Bible and thus we don't know what it means to follow Jesus.